I wouldn't do it at a mom and pop place but at Starbucks?! Hell yes! She shouldn't feel bad.

starbucks is pissed or whooever the store may be because the could posibly be losing 2 bucks from many people its a snowball effect.i say do it.save yourself 2 bucks.at the rate gas i we going we need to gyp em

I have been seeing these sort of "work-arounds" for Starbucks drinks for a couple of years, and I think the real solution is to just charge the same amount for all drinks at Starbucks.

I'm sure there's enough sales data by now to determine a poularity-weighted average price point. I'm going to guess it's something like 3 dollars.

I refuse to pay more then $1.00 for a cup of coffee as it is, my wife however will mortgage the house for one.

I don't see anything wrong with this, if they shop doesn't want people using the bar this way, they need to find a way to limit the use of the products.

I think it's a little tacky and silly (if you're really broke, brew your own coffee!) but still. She has the right to tell all of her subscribers about her discovery. And Starbucks has the right to lock up the milk and start charging by the tablespoon if they're upset about it.

I think it would be cool to add a note to suggest people drop that extra buck or two in the tip jar. I mean, if you can afford fancy drinks at Starbucks, you can afford to tip. And I think most people don't.

I agree with the coffee shop manager on this one.

The milk at the fixin’s bar acts as a modifier to your drink choice in the same way a condiment modifies a burger. You would not simply pump a Big Gulp worth of ketchup into a cup and think that it's all right. Those items cost money. If customers start doing this, the prices on ALL of the drinks will go up to compensate for the newly increased cost of milk, or milk will cease to be offered at all.

As for thinking it is all right to essentially steal milk from Starbucks just because it's not a mom and pop shop shouldn't even be a factor. Plenty of "Moms and Pops" own Starbucks stock or own that particular franchise. In my mind, any attempt to reduce the price of the good being offered without full consent from the vendor constitutes theft. This is not like a coupon where the vendor has considered the benefit of earning new customers by offering money off of an item. The milk is provided with the good faith that the privilege will not be abused.

As long as Starbucks allows for custom drinks, people will come up with their own blends. The only difference here is that Lisa posted it as an intentional workaround, not merely a custom coffee. I think what Lisa did was perfectly fine. I'm no Randy Cohen, but she can rest easy, in my opinion.

Coffee good. Less money into more coffee gooderer. Let the goodering begin. Coffee chain has just been pwned by l33t dieters. More power to the economical Haxxx0rs!

Well, if I owned a coffee place, I wouldn't bone people with ridiculous prices.

Sure, you gotta make money, but a latte shouldn't cost that much more than an americano. After all, milk is milk. I guess the difference in price could arise from the time it takes to actually make the milk boil. If that's so, it's all moot since I'm not infringing on any milk boiling, and I'm certanily not boiling milk for anyone else.

Along with that, an americano + milk is a pretty half-ass latte. So if you're willilng to have a lesser product for a lesser price, the owner of the coffee establishment should deal with it.

And another thing. If I own a coffee place, my latte is going to be so Bob-be-Buggered delicious that no one will THINK of getting anything to substitute.

Take that, Starbucks.

Unless Starbucks holds a patent on the production of lattes they have no gripe. All she did was point out two pieces of publicly available knowledge and synthesize them into a clever tip. They should be ashamed of themselves for charging $2.00 for a shot of milk when you could buy a gallon for less!

I would have to say that it is alright, but then again I have not moral barometer. I always drink my coffee black and have never once used sugar or cream at any starbucks or similar shop, but I still pay a small premium for the usage of that "modifier" bar and would like to offer my 10 years of daily contributions to that fund to the people that would like to use the bar to make that drink.

It is a work around and people find these all the time. If coffee shops want to charge for those condiments and take a little bit off the cost of my black coffee, I am happy for them to do that too.

How is this any different than just going in and taking a stack of napkins home? And why should every other customer who IS willing to pay $4 for a coffee be screwed out of having milk available because they had to remove it due to the abuse of a few customers? This is theft, plain and simple. If you don't want to pay $4 for coffee, don't go to Starbucks. $4 coffee is NOT an excuse to steal from them, but it is an excuse to go somewhere else.

1. It IS kind of shitty for people to abuse condiment bars. It makes me think of my grandmother who thinks buying the $3.49 grand slam breakfast at Denny's entitles her to the 17 single-serve jelly cups and every artificial sweetener that they leave on the table. Hey! She's a paying customer, and they provide these! So what if she shoves them all in her purse to use at home? Ugh.

2. I don't think Starbucks should lose a wink of sleep over it. Like someone else pointed out, that's a half-assed latte. But if you really just want the milk to fancy up your drink, knock yourself out! That's why it's there. How is making your Dopio a little milky any worse than anyone else who wants cream in their coffee?? But the truth is: in business, customers are good. If a thousand people read that trick, and even a quarter of them are motivated to stop by Starbucks that day to 'rip them off', yay for Starbucks! If I were a company, I'd imagine up ways to get customers to think they were getting one over on me... as long as I get them in my door.

Having never been to a Starbucks, I can't understand why they are so popular. Is the coffee really that good (free milk or not)? I'm tempted to go in there today and try this trick out (assuming the Starbucks in New Zealand let the free milk lovin' flow).

I'll report back later.

Thank you, JC. You've made my point:

Starbucks has a new customer. And we all know they dope the coffee like the cigarette companies. It must be addictive.

It is just milk. If they are charging you an extra $2 for the milk, I say use some from the bar. If you can get around it, why not. It isn't stealing, just... cheating? You can buy a gallon of milk for $2.

I am going to start selling milk outside of starbucks. That way there will be no complaints. 10cent milk shots!

I agree with Contagion, and I think the best way for Starbucks to limit the overindulgence in their cream and sugar bar is to put it in themselves. I noticed Dunkin' Donuts has no problem putting cream in the coffee for me, why can't Starbucks? That way the customer is getting value--i.e. some justification for paying close to $2.00 for a cup of coffee--and Starbucks gets to spot people horsing around with the menu and charge accordingly.

In other words, I believe that it's not right to take more from the cream and sugar stand than would be expected from you, but I also believe that the solution is simply to provide better customer service. Once you do that you also get loyalty, and that gets them revenues. Win-win.

I'm sure Starbucks would be happy if the media caught wind of this. Free advertising is always the best, even if it's negative. The coffee shop owner who complained will be happy if 50 new customers come in his shop to "rip him off" at $2 a pop. They'll tell their friends and soon he'll need to buy a cow just to keep all the new customers happy (OK maybe not a COW). And don't get me started at the $2.50 for a croisant!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, it is NOT the same thing as stealing ALL the sugar or napkins. That's CRAZY! That "fixin's bar" is there for you to fix drinks the way you want to. And who cares if you put 3 oz. of milk into how brewed coffee, or you add it to 2 shots of chilled espresso? The choice is YOURS! Lisa is right.

I think it's absolutely fine. It's put out there for the customer to use. I worked in the hospitality business as a chef for 12 years and I think it's insulting that they charge people so much for their product.

I wouldn't do it to a mom and pop place because they would never gouge people that much or they'd be out of business. People go to Starbucks because it's trendy. Their coffee is nothing spectacular.

The mark-up on retail food and drink is so high that even an independant retailer is still making a profit if people do this, so I don't think there is anything wrong with it.

The franchise owner of a Schlotzsky's told me once that an original ham and cheese is pretty much the same thing as a texas Schlotzsky's, just cheaper.

He didn't seem to mind saving me a couple of bucks.

I see nothing wrong with it thoughh.

We used to do that at our local A&W. If you order all the items from a "teen burger" individually, the clerk would have to ring up "extra meat, extra cheese, extra bun, extra etc". In the end the burger would be roughly $1 cheaper.

If you are going to offer your customers a Fixins Bar, then you are automatically giving them license to do what they want with it. Unless there are signs telling you what you can and can not do at the bar, then customers have free reign. Yes this means some jerk can get an empty cup from the barrista and then fill it up with free skimmed milk... that is just the risk you take in having free stuff out there. Someone will ALWAYS abuse it. But without it, you lose customers. So it is a necessary evil... just what you have to live with as a retail manager. Living with the custoemrs who take advantage. As far as publishing her tip - - - I think your friend was in the Right. She isn't breaking any rules, and she certainly isn't going to bring the Reign of Starbucks to an end. If people do this at a mom & pop shop, then Mom and Pop have every right to ask their customers NOT to do it, but at the end of the day, unless they post signs about it, then they too run the risk of dealing with those kinds of customers, customers who will be creative to save money.

I can't imagine how detrimental this "theft" is to the Starbucks corporation. A customer only has so much room remaining in the cup to add milk. Starbucks doesn't like it, then they should fill the damn cup to the rim (like the good people at BRIM).

I don't really get too excited about the milk, milk is inexpensive. It's the SPICES that I like to take advantage of. I like to bring in my own raw cookie dough and use the Starbucks bar to make my Snickerdooles. NOW you’re talking about significant savings, my friends.

I think it's totally acceptable to do, especially when your funds are running a little low. It's all the more acceptable at a large coffee shop chain. If you purchased something, you are a paying customer and are allowed access to the fixin's bar. Plus, I doubt that this will make a large dent in the amount of money coffee shops take in- sometimes people are too lazy to make something themselves.

If they're charging you $2.00 more for MILK? Yeah, it's totally justified. You can get a whole carton of the stuff for that much. Starbucks is way overpriced anyway, so stickin' it to 'em is more than enough reason to use this workaround. They're like the Microsoft of the coffee world. Paying $2.00 for milk is just as crazy as paying whatever godawful amount they charge for Windows.

Is it "right" for Starbucks to devise ridiculously complex menus and order modifiers for the purpose of milking their customers, or is that "theft", too? If you can order the same thing two different ways, but saying one thing costs more than saying something else, I have to think that SB are the ones doing the fucking around in this situation. I used to order Americanos with extra shots of espresso, partly because I thought I was getting a good deal! HAH! I'm a sucker.

she isn't stealing, she's just beating the system. there isn't anything wrong with trying not to get screwed out of your money. it's the same as shopping around for a better price. bargain-hunting. 4 bucks is ridiculous for a cup of coffee, whether at starbucks or at a mom & pop place.

and I'm sick of hearing baristas whine about not getting enough tips. how much do you guys make an hour? if you get more than min. wage then your salary doesn't include tips. I'm not stingy at all-- I tip well... when it is deserved. If I'm supposed to tip baristas then I guess I should tip the kid at mcdonalds who has to slave over the grill all day for my $1menu burger. Don't kid yourself, fast food jobs are hard work-- and I'd definitely say the job of a barista is a step up from working in a burger joint. You all don't have to go home with grease on your shoes, smelling like cheap meat, all for a check that might not even break $300 bucks for two weeks. Get over yourselves. Learn some skills and get a better job if being a barista doesn't pay. Meanwhile, I brew my own coffee, thank you so very much.

Starbucks gets enough money from loads of people to keep on opening in new places they shouldn't even worry about stuff like that.I mean, they are the ones ripping us off.At a local place they need the money. But have you seen how many starbucks' there are?

seriously, its starbucks. no I wouldn't do it at a locally owned coffee shop because I'm more than happy to contribute my $3.65 to keep a local economy healthy, but if I can save $2.00 at an overpriced coffee chain like starbucks, I will.

I agree with angela, why pay an extra $2.00 to have them put in what you can for free at the coffee bar?

This is straight up grimy. Brew your own or pay like regular schmoes. Additionally, this kind of stuff is what crazy people do before they really go over. In five years she'll be the person holding up the line with a bunch of outdated coupons and demanding to see the manager. Lastly, of all the systems to beat, why waste your time with this one? If this represents big savings over time for you, you need to make coffee at home. If you want the convenience, pay for it.

I agree with angela, why pay an extra $2.00 to have them put in what you can for free at the coffee bar?

As long as they allow you to do it and they have no rules prohibiting it, I say it's OK.

At a local coffee shop, I would say to do this would be sort of wrong. But a local coffee shop would never charge prices as high as Starbuck's does. And at local coffee shops, the owners only have one store they are making money from, whereas Starbucks has many stores...

people. it's milk and coffee. holy schnikes, it's not like she's telling people how to perform tax fraud. prepared frothy coffee is going to be fancier, and you'd be paying an extra $2 for it. if you wanna skimp and add cold milk, it's your right. that's what the self-serve coffee fixing area is for. now, who wants to know how to turn a short bread cookie into a moist mocha n' milk shortbread surprise?

The simple fact of the matter is this:

Starbucks has the "fixins" out for the customers to use. With the food items that they put on the fixins counter, they should realize the potential for customers to modify their orders past simple flavour (Canadian spelling!) enhancements. If Starbucks doesn't want to give away free stuff, they shouldn't have free stuff to give away.

I think that its OK to do, because you are still paying far more than the price of the actual ingredients, and if you like your own mix of stuff used from the free condiments bar, then Starbucks can rest assure knowing that the person will remain a grateful and addicted customer.

Mmmm, cookies.

Let's have it, Anthony!

Coffee shops and other food places have been around for years, as have the ways around them. It's not a starbucks-specific thing; it's a general consumer thing. My mom doesn't like to pay for extra cheese on her tacos at Taco Bell, so she brings her own. I have yet to see one of the friendly employees complain about OH MY GOD, NON-PAID FOR CHEESE.

So..Stick it to Starbucks. If they can sell coffee- a buck fifty at gas stations for the same general product- for three+ dollars, I'm sure their profits aren't being harmed.
Not to mention that I know plenty of people far too lazy to do that.

I think if you feel like you have found a way to jack the system (look what I can get for nothing!) you have crossed into the unethical. At the very least it is an overblown sense of entitlement. It is not unlike eating fungus from someone else's property.

It would be unjust for the people that use the condiment bar as it was intended to suddenly have to pay extra for the service because of rampant price dodging.

As profitable as Starbucks is, they employ lots of people and provide them good health insurance, too. Stealing from a corporate entity is no less stealing. Making a local Starbucks less profitable has an adverse effect on the local employees.

There's nothing wrong with a work around or savvy consumerism. If coffee shops don't like it, then they should hire some anti-work around personnel to research and preemptively counter the effects.

Besides, like many of you have said: Starbucks is way over-priced and their coffee tastes like watered down Coke. The only reason I go there is because I like pound cake.

In response to Ru:

"Jacking the system" and stealing would be walking into Starbucks, taking a basket of napkins and straws for personal use, and then leaving without paying for anything.

Paying for an overrated coffee drink and then exploiting condiments is a totally different issue.

I've heard that the actual cost of the food is a very small part of a restaurant's overhead. Thus one can consider the Starbuck's made version of the drinks as involving a service and therefore the cost of labor. If the customer uses ingredients that are already out there, this service and labor cost is not involved (though there will be an additional labor cost in provisioning the milks etc. that is out there).

On a related subject, THANK YOU so much for the link. I've bookmarked it (as well as your blog).
Arlene

I wouldn't do this at a mom and pop coffee shop, but Starbucks? Fuck em. Charging two dollars for a shot of milk is absurd.

Use a condiment bar if you want. If you are doing it to cheat Starbucks then you are not acting morally.

I think the moral reasoning exhibited often in the above posts to be ridiculous. If it is wrong to abuse a Ma + Pa store then it is wrong to abuse Starbucks - under the logic of many who have posted there is no real right or wrong to the matter.

The repeated justification for stealing was "They're rich - they're ripping people off..." This is the moral reasoning of a three-year-old. Your neighbor's house is bigger than yours - you can cheat them. You who would espouse such bankrupt logic (pun intended) should be prepared for anyone poorer or smaller than you to come and take what from you what they think is fair.

And now that we're at that point, please supply your address- I'm not real wealthy, myself and need a few things.

If their coffee is too expensive - don't buy it.

I don't see the big deal with this. I'm buying a cheaper drink, adding a couple ounces of free milk, and walking off with a cheaper knockoff of a more expensive drink. Its not going to be as good as if the milk were steamed and I'd paid the $2 extra, but its a shorcut/tradeoff I'm willing to take.

I see McDonalds stores that charge $4.50 for a 10 piece nugget 'value' meal when all of the components of said meal are available on the dollar menu for $4.00. Is it wrong of me to order the items individually or should I suck it up and pay for the meal? Should I expect angry emails from store managers for pointing this out?

Businesses are out to make as much money as they can and as such they'll charge as much or more for something as what they think someone will pay. As a consumer, my money is mine to do with as I please. If I want a crappy latte knockoff with cold milk, I'll buy the cheaper drink. If I want something better, I'll shell out the extra money. If you've got something comparable or exactly the same on the menu that I can get for less, that doesn't mean I'm stealing. Just means I'm spending my money wisely.

I just see too many blatant examples of companies just grubbing for money to really take seriously a store manager that tells me I'm ripping him off by pointing out how I can be a wiser consumer.

I think my favorite rip off of all time would have to be the old silver cleaning informercials where they send you a chunk of metal and some activating powder for $20 that would magically clean all of your silver without scrubbing. As someone who watched Mr. Wizard as a kid I knew you could do this with hot water, a piece of aluminum foil, and baking soda. Hats off to whoever got rich selling chunks of aluminum with a packet of baking powder for $20 + shipping and handling. He or she certainly took the words of PT Barnum to heart.

As someone who is currently addicted to the Pumpkin Spice Latte (soooo....goooood!) and the Mocha -- I've tried to make knockoff versions of these drinks and have failed miserably. So I will not be using the condiment bar to try and make my own.

If I want the drink, then I'll use my "egg money" from playing orchestra gigs to buy the real thing -- brewed, steamed, and flavored.

That said, I don't see anything wrong with mixing up your drink however you want with the condiments available to you. My husband will buy an iced latte and put 20 packets of Splenda in it. (Ack! Sooo....sweet. Gag.) Is he "abusing" the condiment bar? Same thing if you use more than one Tbsp of milk. I don't see it as abuse.

I think the argument here lies in the users intent. If someone came in and fixed up their own drink like the Hungry Girl did JUST BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY, would they be "stealing?" Or only if the INTENT was to get a cheaper drink? Hair splitting at best.

it shouldnt be that big of a deal. this guy who complained sounds like a horses ass. i work at a taco joint and i will suggest a cheaper way for a person to get something all the time. the point is that they keep buying from that location.

I am a barrista at a 'mom n pop' cybercafe. In fact, I'm typing this at work right now. While we don't actively encourage customers to figure this out, if they do, we're not complaining. In fun lattes and such, part of what they are paying for is the steamed milk. If they don't mind it cold, then fine. But the steamer, and the time it takes to steam it is part of what you're paying for. On the other hand... screw starbucks, only do that there. Better yet, do it, but just don't go to starbucks at all.

I agree with Jonathon. If they charge so much for the milk, then people are going to look for a way to avoid paying so much.

Charge less in the first place, people won't try and invent a get-around.

I worked at a starbucks. People would pull the "poor man's latte" pretty frequently. One of the resons why the prices are so high are because the 'bux must accomodate people doing this.

It's pretty pedestrian to pull this stunt. It's at the same level as not tipping at a restaurant simply becuase "you don't actually have to". I'm not sure of the official starbucks stance on this, but if I ran a coffee shop, I would definately look down on this.

I like pie.

I prefer cake. and cake jerky (cookies).

Along the same ethical lines . . . ? How many after-dinner mints are TOO MANY when leaving the restaurant. I get greedy with the individually wrapped butter mints. Is 2 OK? Would it be bad for my soul if I were to take 3? Does it matter that I just paid $90 for my dinner?

I must know!

If they provide the means, they can't be upset when the public-at-large figures out a way to save some money. Some of us have slightly more intelligence than a government monkey. I'm just glad I don't drink coffee. Nas-tee! On a side note, I just realized that this is my third annual tree brain. I've wasted two years of my life reading The Sneeze! Wahoo!

Sounds like iced dopio's for this kid! Well... at starbucks, yes; at the local coffee shop where they provide free wi-fi; a stage for live music; poetry readings, etc... no way. In an iced latte don't they still steam the milk? (I don't order lattes... the steamer scares me).

Where in the world do y'all live that a gallon of milk is only $2?? Good grief, it's almost $4/gallon here.

Anywho.. I got tired of them charging me 40 cents every time I ordered a Caramel Frap and asked for extra caramel sauce, so I bought a bottle of their caramel and I add it myself now. Saved me several bucks, and I still get what I wanted - is that cheating, too?

Technically you're not cheating Starbucks out of anything until they put "cold milk latte" on their goddamn menu. Stop whining Starbucks.

Latte aside, Starbucks shouldn't be inflating the cost of a vanilla shot by giving it a new fancy drink name. It's their own damn fault. Change your menu or shut up.

I've always been one to concoct my own coffee drinks, no matter what coffee shop I'm in. I think it's insane to charge $2.50 extra to add a squirt or two of flavored syrup and some milk to a basic cup of coffee.

I'm of the opinion that if they offer a coffee condiment bar, I'm gonna use it to the fullest.

I don't see the moral line at all. Like was said previously, it's just coffee and milk. That extra price is, of course, the Starbucks "ambiance" and if you want a little $2 ambiance to make your coffee fluffy, go for it. If you just want some AmericanCanoe coffee, or whatever, with some milk, get the milk from the bar.
Along those lines, I've seen people POUR OUT some of their coffee, so they could add massive amounts of milk from the bar. Now I don't know if that's an official drink (coffee-flavored milk) but how is that different from what Lisa has done?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. Starbucks should investigate things like this more clearly. If they find that people are exploiting something, they should fix it.

Usually, compilations of things are cheaper. The same concept is usually seen in unit prices: bigger containers of a product cost less per unit than smaller containers of a product.

I think it's more of a rip-off that they'd run a customer an extra two bucks for some milk. That seems a little crooked to me. I'd not only do that at a Starbucks, I'd do it anywhere! Serves them right for charging so much for so little.

and does this coffee shop grunt think it's appropriate to charge more than 3.50 for a cup of coffee? that's over a gallon of GAS. shame on starbucks. screw em Venti

By denying a corporation its due receipts, this is clearly an attempt to to ruin this fine country. Acts like these are why communism lies at the bottom of the ash heap of history.

Now, pass me that milk for my iced doppio. Mrs. Alan needs her caffeine.

I really don't get why so many of you guys think it is "morally wrong" for this girl to add cold milk to her coffee. Intent or no intent, "poor man's latte" or the real deal: if you pay for your damned drink you get to use the free condiments-- and that means however much you like of whatever you want to add, provided that you mix it right there at that moment into the drink you just purchased (i.e. you obviously can't just pocket the stuff for later even though you bought a drink).

I was at a starbucks with my friend who ordered a large tea. He wanted to put some honey in it because he was sick and had a really sore throat. The honey was behind the counter so he asked the barista for 6 packets. The barista rolled his eyes and made some rude comment under his breath about how many packets my friend wanted. It was a huge cup of tea and my friend was sick, get over it! He mixed it into his tea right there in front of him, he wasn't trying to pocket the stuff. If starbucks is really so stingy, they should just do away with all the free condiments and charge 5cents a packet. It sounds stupid to me, but if its really that big of a deal...

I find it extremely hard to believe that doing this little 'fix' would cause Starbuck's any severe financial harm. How much milk are we actually talking about here? Everyone is making it sound like half a gallon per 'fix'. And it doesn't taste the same anyway, so how many people are going to try it, say 'blech', and go back to ordering it the old fashioned, heinously expensive way? I totally agree with a few people up yonder there, if it gets customers in the door, then who benefits? Sing it with me people, "Starbucks".
I hate coffee anyway, doesn't matter how you dress it up. Like puttin' lipstick on a pig.

Mom and Pops = no.
Starbucks or chain shops = yes.

Heck, I do that with my bagel. A bagel with tunafish is $5.00 but if I order a plain bagel and a 1/4 tuna separate it's $2.50. I can't fathom paying $2.50 for them to slice the bagel and smear the tuna.

Thanks for the tip Lisa. Guess what I'm ordering tomorrow at SB?

I think Starbucks is a complete rip off and I can't imagine why people flock there to get coffee. The same coffee that used to be $.25 cent and free refills at any resturaunt. I say any way you can make the drink you want for less money is ok. The fact taht the manager was angry about it only confirms to me that the coffee is overpriced.

Self service gas is cheaper than full service gas.
Same for self service latte.

Starbucks is known for attempting to monopolize the coffeeshop market with its strategic positioning of coffeeshops, large marketing budgets, and the whole 'OMFG STARBUCKS' attitude I've seen happening. People go there because it's trendy and they want to appear trendy to everyone else or whatever.

I won't set foot in a Starbucks, so I'm not going to even bother trying... There are so many reasons why they bother me. I'd rather go to my favorite little coffeeshop and pay a good price for a good coffee or just make my own at home.

But I don't think it's wrong to use what they put out for customers to use. A freakin' shot of steamed milk can not cost two bucks.
Or I could just make my own at home, for even cheaper.

It seems to me that Starbucks is just pissed because someone pointed out to the masses that they're charging two fucking dollars for MILK!

haha, screw starbucks, jip them, but leave the mom and pop places alone. its pretty much an ethical thing.

alright, someone used the example of abusing the condiments at a hamburger place....

well...what if they were charging $2 extra for a hamburger with ketchup on it and calling it something different vs. buying the hamburger and putting ketchup on it yourself?

would buying a plain hamburger with the intention of putting ketchup on it be abusing the condiment bar? The ketchup is there for you to use!

if you really want to get into condiment abuse, I know of plenty of people who will go into a starbucks, say inside a coffee shop or something; and get a small cup of milk from the condiment bar...free! or get a glass of water....free! OMG somebody shoot them!

Personally, I refuse to go to a starbucks so I don't care. I just think this whole thing is ridiculous. The condiment bar is just sitting out there, free for anyone to use. There is no "don't try to duplicate our drinks with these condiments" sign.

At starbucks, Yes.
At your local coffee shop, No.
Bottom line.

This is so fucking trivial it isn't even worth a discussion. If the shop doesn't want you to use items in your coffee, they shouldn't provide them to you.

C'mon, this is generating a lengthy discussion..?

I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's not illegal so I agree with the stance that if the coffee shop is unhappy with their customers' use of the fixin's bar, then they should regulate it differently.

The drink described by Lisa is not really even the same thing as the true latte version anyway. In the latte, the milk is steamed and frothed and all that good stuff. Adding milk to an americano at the fixin's bar is an ok substitute, but it's really not the same, IMHO. So you would still need to pay extra for the real thing. If you're satisfied with a faux latte, then so much the better for you. I simply don't find this a morally depraved thing to do in the least, ma & pa shop or no.

I always eat the condiments. I hoard salt and pepper sachets and carry a camelback to siphon the ice water into for later. I often use toilets at places where I'm not even a customer. Sometimes, I hang out at the deli counter at the upermarket just waiting for them to start a sausage tasting.

One thing I do not condone however, is Starbucks coffee.

Starbucks coffee is people!

WHA? You mean she suggested paying for coffee and then- GASP- engaging in the highly unethical practice of putting the free milk they offer into the very same coffee?

Come on people- the condiment bar is there for customers to USE. Sure it may look like "beating the system" but seriously- if you purchase coffee you're entitled to use the condiments in appropriate quantities. She wasn't suggesting asking for an extra cup and filling it up with milk or taking 500 sugar packets to save for a muffin-baking extravaganza later on . . . if they don't want people to use the milk, why would it be there? Suggesting somethin like this will drive up the prices is pretty crazy- think about it this way: the milk is most likely there to supplement drinks that don't already have milk in them (black coffee, etc). The Dopio is a drink with no milk in it. Therefore, they've probably already factored milk-use into the price of the drink anyway. Go for it. The extra 2.00 in the latte price probably covers stuff like the steamer and the extra time it takes for the barista to make the drink.

So, in closing, WTF? It's just coffee.

Mom or pop shop, or Starbucks, I would do what's both ethical and best for me. If a businessperson is selling ingredients x+y for less than x+y+z, and they're giving away z for free, the phrase for that is 'bad business'. It means they're overcharging you for x+y+z, or undercharging you for x+y.

If the company is still making a profit on x+y, even if you take some of that free z, then they have no sympathy from me. They can easily adjust their prices.

They should just charge the same price as if the customer got it the way Lisa suggests. Ma n' pa or chain place, they're both ripping you off in the end. Is the fact that they mix the milk in for you worth 2 bucks anywhere? I say nay.

The only reason there are so many Starbucks across this great country of ours is because they fleece everyone and make a ridiculous profit. I would never do the "shortcut" at a Mom & Pops, but I would ALWAYS do this at a Starbucks. Or a Wal-Mart. Both those places suck.

Its up to the shop to make sure they're not losing money at the fixin's bar. As far as i'm concerned, all of those things are fair game.

If you think Starbucks charges too much money, then DON'T GO THERE. They can charge whatever they hell they want to charge.

At Target Pizza Hut Expresses these are the following prices:

Medium soda: $1.19

Small Popcorn: $0.99
Small Popcorn + Medium Soda: $1.00

Vienna Hot Dog: $1.99
Vienna Hot Dog + Medium Soda: $2.00

This isn't considering that as far as food ingredients go, popcorn costs $0.02 per bag and a 6" cheese pizza costs approx $0.60 (you pay over $3.00)

For over forty years on Decatur Street in the French Quarter there was THE {THE!!!!} best coffee shop on the planet. It's name? Cafe Kaldi. They allowed the gutter punks to come in and clean up; they allowed free water and bathroom use (unheard of in the Quarter) and they allowed anyone and everyone to sit for hours playing Solitaire; playing their guitars; playing with each other. Locals loved em; tourists came in and received the [ahem] "fresh" breath of air only Quarter-locals can provide. It was in such a prime location and had such loyal customers that STARBUCKS decided they wanted to make it one of their own. Cafe Kaldi declined their offer, saying the need to remain individual and dedicated to their long-standing and beloved patrons was a necessity in the evergrowing Big Corporation take-overs happening everywhere else in the city.
The locals held their own revolution against the beloved Kaldi's being forced to "sell-out", petitions were signed, meetings were held and for a while it looked like Starbucks realized this particular attempt was futile.
{hee hee hee, thought the Evil Corporation}
The Quarter sighed an exhalation of relief and returned to the picturesque window-seating of Kaldi's, the ironrod tables inside and the rickety quiet-spots upstairs to continue life (and love and lust and well-behaved debauchery) as they knew it.
BUT HAHA! Starbucks BOUGHT THE BUILDING Cafe Kaldi's rented from; RAISED THE RENT TO AN OUTRAGEOUSLY EXORBITANT FEE--->>effectively running Kaldi's out of business. THEN {oh-ho-ho yes AND THEN} Starbuck's decided that;
"Hey, screw y'all...you didn't want us here?! MMMMKay then....We'll sell the building to a NON-profit TOURIST organization."
just a thing.

I had a girlfriend many years back who told me that diners would come to the very middle-class rib shack where she worked and order water, ten lemons, and several packs of sugar. Of course, they would not get charged anything for this order, yet they were able to make lemonade from these component parts. Classy!

The people who support this kind of activity are the same people who think that all rich people are evil. Is it not possible that a good person could strike it rich with a good idea and hard work.

I hate to get all Republican on you, but I am a small business owner who has been working my ass off for three years and barely making a buck. If I hit it big one day, I hate to think that people would start to think of me as the faceless "man" who deserves every bit of scamming he receives.

Fact -Starbucks would never sell anything for less than it costs them. Ergo- if an "Iced Dopio" and a vanilla shot costs $1.65 you know they are making money on it (the shot of milk being negotionalble)
Therefore they or anyone else has no reason to complain. Starbucks makes money, we get the coffee, and no laws are broken. Kinda makes you think about the kind of money they are pulling in selling Americano's and the like

The Starbucks I used to go to had a sign by the milk and sugar that said not to abuse the free stuff. If you really want to save money, buy yourself a small espresso maker. You will save assloads of money after the first 6 months of buying it. Also, you can make your drinks so they don't have that burnt ass crust after taste starbucks expresso tends to have.

I work at Starbucks and this particular thing is an age-old dabate.

Do I think its stupid for people to order and Iced doppio in a grande cup? Yes, but not for money reasons.

The milk sitting in those things on the condiment bar has been sitting there for an hour or more. I wouldnt drink a glass of it if you paid me. Have your two dollars. Enjoy the milk.

Also, if you tip after doing thing we'll like you more. We may even be more inclined to fill up your glass with fresh milk for "free".

I think that if an extablishment chooses to leave condiments out for public use, then the public can use it as they pleases. They put it there for you, so use it! If Starbuck's doesn't want to lose some of the ridiculous amount of profit they make, then they should not have a condiment bar.

I save more than that. I don't like ordering things like that because I fear what I don't understand. I just buy my coffee at Dunkin' Donuts for $1.50. No sugar, no milk, no flavor shots, none of that stuff.... just cofee...

As a starbucks employee these are the things I hate:

1) People whining about starbucks coffee being so expensive. How much does a bottle of water cost people? WATER?!? Jesus christ, is it so hard to fathom why coffee that is actually purchased from farmers in other regions of the world would cost a tiny bit more than folgers? If water (rememeber, fucking WATER) costs $1.50 a bottle is it so hard to belive that a fancy starbucks cup and a fancy starbucks latte made on one of two $25,000 espresso machines would cost $3.00? If you think it's too expensive, or that starbucks is ripping people off then dont come. If that's your thinking though I suggest you take a look at the label of your shirt. Where was it made? China? Indonesia? How much did that shirt cost? $20? $50? Guess what? Pennies to make, plus slave labor. There are more important battles people, at least starbucks tries to be a corperation with some conscience (unlike old navy or the gap)

2) People thinking starbucks is the devil. Listen, Im socially conscience, Im aware. I understand that its easy to blame starbucks for running that mom and pop coffee house that you loved so much out of buissness- they probably did, but the fact of the matter is that starbucks is only taking advantage of the demand for their coffee. Ive seen the american retail landscape change, for the better or worse- but its changing. Target? Home Depot? Walmart? Odwalla? Believe what you may about big buissness but unless you're boycotting all of them I find it hard to really hear your complaint. They're all the same.

3) Starbucks treats its employees well. I get health insurance for 20 hours a week. That pays for my $1,500 a month medication. Would the local mom and pop coffee shop be able to offer me health insurance? Ive worked there- they cant. They just pay me late and under the table. You want to look up some figure on how many people living in this country cant get medical care? You want to figure out how many people die because they dont have health insurance. How many babies?
Starbucks gives back to the communities they buy their coffee from. Do you think Target gives back to the communities they buy their slave labor made clothes from?

When it comes down to it there are bigger, more important, more deserving targets. People like coffee, starbucks has convinced them that they have good coffee. There isnt anything wrong with that, and putting mom and pop buissnesses out of buissness but creating 3X more jobs is way less evil than what the cars are doing to our enviroment, what the developers are doing to our wet lands, what factories are doing to our air and what our president is doing to our world.

Dont like it? Dont shop there. Enjoy those slave-labor made clothes and those abused and skinned alive animals you eat. Your living in a fragile bubble if you think starbucks is worth any of your anger.

Someone up there said "The only reason there are so many Starbucks across this great country of ours is because they fleece everyone and make a ridiculous profit."
NO! Starbucks is popping up all over the place because people are GOING to their stores and PAYING for their product. Starbucks is not out in the street lassoing people and tipping them upside down until all the money falls out of thier pockets. They are not "Fleecing" people. The people know what they charge and they voluntarily go in to pay that much. Sillies.
As for the whole milk get around thing. I see no problem with it. I put milk in my coffee all the time at home. I should be able to put the same amount in my coffee when I go out. Denny's gives you a whole bowl full of those snazzy little creamer cups. They don't care how many you use, What's the difference?

I used to own a restaurant. A neighborhood cafe started by a few of us idealists, serving breakfast, lunch and dinner 7 days a week and a free 'no questions asked' spaghetti and salad supper every Sunday. We did our part to buy from local farmers, create delicious food in a wide range of prices (from free to $2 for rice and beans to $14.95 for an elaborate dinner special.

Despite our best efforts to 'meet the needs' of the community, we still suffered immensely from freeloaders and cheapskates!

From the people who paid for one $0.65 cup of tea and asked for 5 hot water refills and a whole lemon's worth of slices (not to mention gobs and gobs of good honey) to the people who set up camp at a 4-top by themselves and brought their freakin office with them and hogged space during the busy lunch rush. Not to mention the people who became irate when we would not honor a coupon that had expired -- a YEAR ago. Or the people who stayed past the dinner hour and into the music performance time and refused to pay a cover for the starving musician...The world is full of self important a-holes who think that everyone owes them something all the g-d time.

As for this creative scammer, she can try to justify that her invention allows her to be an outlaw, a rebel, and that she is 'sticking it to the man.' And a whole bunch of self-styled tin can revolutionaries will imitate her and think they are striking a blow against the machine...meanwhile hundreds of thousands of people are homeless on the Gulf Coast, poverty exists in every corner of this nation and you people think it's fun to rip off Starbucks.

Maybe you all should take that money you 'save' from ripping off Starbucks and send it somewhere it is needed, because if you have the time to figure out how to get a $4 latte down to $2, you have too much time, and money, on your hands.

i would do it at a mom & pops or at starbucks. get atta hea, it's a $2 shot of milk. rip offff!
good for you, keep doling out the tips, lisa. i'll see you at your site. :)

Of course you should save yourself money, and of course you should share the tip with everyone else to save money! But then again, im the kind of person who wouldnt tell someone they gave me too much change... to each their own, eh?

Awwwww....Poor Starbucks!! That $2.00 will probably break them! Let's SCREW the MAN!!
LISA...LISA...LISA...LISA...LISA (CHANTING)

I think what she is doing is fine in a franchised coffee bar as opposed to a smaller and less insured business. It _isn't_ like she rolled a 1 ton piece of corporate art through their location. She ran off with 1-2oz of milk. Whoopy. Maybe the store will just tighten up, drop the freebie milk and lower the price of a shot of milk in its entire. Let us note, the free milk is a commodity they normally _charge_ for in a different form at the _same_ time!

I like their products, mind you I don't drink too much coffee myself, I normally just get a venti steamer with vanilla, as its more convenient to do that twice a month than buy the machine and lug it through life with me. It's calling "paying for the convenience". This is the sort of reason to _have_ a store do it for you in the first place, I'll note.

The total price of a fixed coffee item should include all of the individual parts of the coffee item at their _individual_ margin markup. It's better business, and also means that you, the customer, can watch when the price of a commodity in your coffee goes up in value. Aka, espresso shots going from 48 cents each to 51 cents, would show a total 3 cent difference before taxes up on the do-it-yourself-board... This would inflict a 3 cent rise on a drink incorporating 1 shot of espresso.

Milk would at tops cost 30 cents per equivicable shot and they'd still make a profit due to buying milk in bulk. 1 Shot of Expresso, valued at 48 cents by the company (cost of having it pulled, mixed if so, chilled, etc), might cost 48 cents as -part- of another product, or by itself. 1 shot espresso + 2 shots of milk = approximately $1.08 before taxes.

When you order it in pieces, as the customer, you are just enforcing this sort of pricing scheme. When a person orders a Caramel Macchiato, they're not ordering the individual parts... They're ordering parts, the _marketing_, the picture on the back wall, the cost of some executive to get his butt waxed for having such an awesome idea as to append an italian word to the end of a chilled drink. Oh, and they save money because the guy at the counter doesn't need a checklist for your order. He just notes down that its a 'carm mac' (or whatever) on the back, saving time. Which saves _them_ money through efficiency streamlining... Which does -not- lower the price of the drink. This isn't like ordering a combo meal where you can watch the price drop! By putting it altogether and obfuscating the product, they can charge whatever margin they feel they can get away with safely at current demand without pissing off customers.

Same reason why when I go to a fastfood restaurant, I'll order my food in individual menu items (this massive burger sans onions, those small fries, etc) and walk around the corner to get a -bottle- of coke for $1.25, where I pay the same and lose the 2:1 water:soda ratio from the fountain machine... They don't really care too much if you say 'hold the ketchup' and then walk out with 2 packets, because the additive on the burger is viewed as lost money just like the packets... It all depends on how the guy pricing the goods looks at it, loss vs expense vs good-PR.

I highly doubt Starbucks will care, but they'll probably act like it.. If for no reason than to rile up those self-righteous fanatical customers that love their brand and even drink their mass-marketed coffee out of their home machines and always feel guilty for stopping at a Starbucks-mongreled B&N now and again. They'll pump their friends with guilt for stealing the milk, and it will all come out in equilibrium. Free milk on the counter, and nobody abusing it because their franchise-friends will hassle them over embarassing them in a Starbucks where all the cool people are.

Hell, they might come up with a price-per-part value menu and market it at twice their normal customer base while claiming it is for higher quality purchasing and convenience, your way right away. (Oh, and hey SB guys, if you do this at _least_ send me a voucher for a couple of steamers for the idea. I'll rant at my friends how great you are after, too, tons of peer pressure. Thanks.)

fn em fn em right in there ear. why are they chargeing 2 dollars for milk anyways. And the fact that they give it away at this fixin bar shows how ignorant the price structure is. F em. The little bastards that serve up this coffee have an overly sense of self esteme anyways. Take that coffee pouring monkey. I can imagine him crying to his freinds. I have worked from assistant flour mopper all the way threw the ranks of coffee pourer. And they can shove that tip jar up their ass. Pompous bastards.

I seem to recall an episode of Head of the Class in which Jawaharlal tried to pull that stunt with some Iced Chai. Dennis told him it was stealing, and that's good enough for me.

seeing as how america overpays for really poor coffee as it is, i think its fine to do it anywhere, designer store or mom and pops, its still lousy coffee thats overpriced.

I think coffee shops have giant cojones charging what they charge for a cup of coffee anyway. The size of the cojones grow exponentially by the size of the tip jar demanding tips for pouring me a cup of subpar coffee that I then have to add my own sugar and cream to.

Lisa's tip was for a special coffee drink- one that would be requested by, I would imagine, a relatively small percentage of her mailing list. I say that if a few people take advantage of an end-around, go for it.

Here's a tip for the franchised coffee bars- get over yourselves. That'll be $4.75, please.

Alright Steve, here's the thing:
The Fixin's are free and the owner of the coffee shop has the right to decide whether or not they want to put the fixin's out there. If they wanna be bitches and not do it and lose customers by not offering them special touches to make their coffee-experience more enjoyable, they have every right to do that as well. Congratulations to Lisa for finding out this information, and I have one more very important point which I think many are neglecting. You are not just paying for the coffee drink in Starbucks, or Caribou, or Mom and Pop, but you are paying for the SERVICE! Look at it this way: It costs less because you make part of the drink yourself, and its not going to the paychecks of the people working there because they did not make that part of the drink, so in some sort of crazy logic, it all evens out in the end

Well, it all boils down to convenience. ATM's all over the place charge 1-2 bucks extra to your account if you are not using an ATM that doesn't belong to your bank. But it's closer than an ATM owned by your bank must be, otherwise you would just go to that one and save the 2 extra bucks. Using the same principle, getting the whole cup o' oe wit hall the fixins already made for you will cost an extra 2 bucks, mainly for convenience. Would you rather play with the sugar and milk and everything when you've gotta bo to work in 10 minutes, or would you rather pay a couple extra greens and have it all set for you? Some people would risk it, but not me. I would say that I spend a good 10-15 dollars a week on "convenience expenses" - anywhere from an ATM to pre-prepared microwavable foods to the nasty, highly trafficked downtown hookers as opposed to the nicer, cheaper ones in the good parts of town (I live downtown, go figure). But then again, I have friends who will go that extra mile to be with Angelica Troy rather than Sandpaper Sally...but that extra mile means extra gas money (suckers).

I dislike Starbucks heartily, but I don't condone doing this even there. Providing free milk for people to touch up thier coffee is a really decent thing to do, but taking advantage of this to circumvent the pricing strategy is just plain wrong.

I've been doing a similar thing myself for some time at KFC: Wednesdays are 50% off kids meals, so for the past several months I've been buying bunches of them every wednesday. I love me some chicken strips, and didn't feel bad about it at first. Afterall, if they wanted it to be against the rules to sell kids meals to people other than kids, they could instate said rule.

I've finally come to the conclusion that the feeling of fullness the chicken strips provide is not outweighed by the feeling of guilt for manipulating the system.

YES! Down with the corporate machine!! But people should have enough integrity to no do that to a mom and pop store.

Look people - this is just called 'being smart'. It's like taking advantage of a tax loophole. I'm sure starbucks knows this goes on, if they cared, then they would not offer an expansive coffee bar for all to use.

I mean come on, what if I like to control how much milk I put in my coffee drink (and furthermore, what kind of milk, maybe I want a splash of half and half, and 1oz of Fat Free). When they put the fixings bar out there, they are ALLOWING you to use it at will -- it is there to CUSTOMIZE your drink.

Furthermore, it is NOTHING like taking all the napkins or sugar packets etc. -- b/c you can only take as much milk as will FIT in your cup. As I see it, as long as they allow you to customize your drink, the way you want it (that's called good customer service), then this is a perfectly fine thing to do.

This may have been said before – I'll be honest, I only read through the first dozen comments or so – but charging so much more for an americano than for a dopio is just highway robbery. I work at a coffeehouse, and we keep all of the milk and other pricey add-ins (Sugar in the Raw, plastic utensils, etc) behind the bar, so we don't have to complain about customers over-using them. Because once you put them out in their hands, you're basically saying that however much they take is limited by their sense of courtesy – and nobody, especially marketing wonks, can deny that some people don't have that sense.

We also charge the same for an Americano as we do for the number of espresso shots that go into it. Why? Because water is frickin free(ish), and there's almost zero employee labor in flicking the hot water tap. The cost for hot water is waaaaay down the line, on the utility bill, not the food cost bill. On the other hand, steaming milk costs money (milk is rather expensive, and fluctuates), and takes time (employee labor, even higher in a small coffeehouse, where it's not done by machines), so a hot latte is justified in being more expensive than an americano. An iced latte involves less labor (no milk steamed), so we make up the price difference by making them slightly larger than their hot counterparts. Our iced americanos we don't even add water to – we don't have a cold water tap behind the bar, so we serve them as shots over ice, and then let the customers add the water from the free water tap at the end of the bar. If people want milk in their americanos, we'll do it, but just flat-out refuse to add enough to make it a latte. If they want a ton of milk, I'll usually politely suggest that I'll keep adding it, but that they'll have to be rung up for a cappuccino or a small latte to cover the costs of the milk.

At any rate, the point is that if Starbucks doesn't want people to abuse their condiment bar, then they should restrict what they put into it. Keep the milk behind the bar, and people can't pour themselves full cups of it. If they're really losing that much money through people stealing cups upon cups of milk, then the labor costs of having employees pour it for the customer is worth the tradeoff.

Since they're providing the "coffee bar", I have no problem with people using it to jazz up their drink however they see fit.

Besides, Hungry-Girl's tips are faboo, so I would never be inclined to disagree with her.

I think that it is obscene what Starbuck's charges for it's various coffee beverages (doesn't stop me from buying them, but still - it is just fricking coffee!) - the company is so completely rolling in dough and will continue to be because Americans love their coffee - that I would not feel an ounce of guilt about using the coffee bar to make budget versions of a beverage to stick it to the [Starbuck's] MAN. That said, even if a thousand of her readers remembered to do this the next time they went to Starbuck's and had the exact same beverage (what are the odds, really?) - big whoop - $2000 - a drop in the big starbuck's bucket. A rice krispie treat will still cost $6 - so it all balances out in the end:) If Starbuck's can afford to provide full benefits to all of it's employees - INCLUDING PART-TIME EMPLOYEES [for any of you recently unemployed folks who can't afford to pay for COBRA - that's another money saving tip! - a couple of part-time shifts in addition to whatever work you are doing to get by can provide benefits during a dark time.] - somehow I think they can afford it. Plus I think it is payback for all of their employees standing around taking their sweet-ass time making my venti mocha frappuccino whilst discussing who's fucking who in their nose-ring social circle...

Ok, Lisa aka Hungry Girl here.

First off, I am pleasantly surprised by this outpouring of support from the masses, so thanks. But I feel I should make a few points here. For starters, somewhere along the line people got the idea that this drink somehow involved "steamed" milk. I am talking about an iced "latte" -- a cold coffee drink that when prepared by a "barista" contains COLD milk. Not steamed milk. So the drink is exactly the same.

That being said, my intention is not to "screw" Starbucks. That isn't what this is about. It's about using the condiment/fixin's/add-ins bar that they provide for you, in a completely fair way. What's the difference if you use 3 ounces of milk in your Venti brewed coffee, or you add it to your chilled espresso shots. There is none.

Anyhow --- just wanted to chime in here since I started it all...

THANK YOU, SNEEZE READERS! I LOVE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU!!!!! XOXOXOXXO - Lisa

Some of you guys really scare me! I have no idea if it should be ok or not - I generally can feel if something is right or wrong, and since I would be anxious doing this, I would guess that it is wrong. But what really scares me is those people saying it is ok because it is Starbucks! What are you guys, communists? it's ok to steal from them because they are rich? Someday I hope you all win the lottery and then have friends come over and steal stuff at your house because "hey, you can afford it!" give me a break....

I don't know about anyone else, but my first reaction to this certainly wasn't "Awesome! Now I'll definately go to that coffee shop I never go, and buy the drink I never buy, just because if I did do any of this, I'd save two bucks!"

Even with telling thousands of subscribers, I doubt that each and every one goes to Starbucks regularily. Nor to each and every one of them get Iced Caffe Lattes. So someone caught their little trick, big whoop. It's not going to dramatically dent business... Unless a horrible disporportionate amount of people buy Iced Caffe Latte or Americano.

Umm...it's just coffee. And milk.

Moving on...

Starbucks does not sell coffee. Starbucks sells image and fantasy. Coffee and all that goes in it may be the vehicle, but it's the image you're buying. Shall we make comparisons to the bottled water fad? The energy drink fad? It's all the same scenario, and image is an easy (sort of) solution to the core problem of advertising: How can I make my product stand out from all of the almost-identical competitors' product?

What's probably eating this coffee hut owner (without realizing it) is the fact that his product's image is being stripped away. Someone wants the *coffee* instead of the image? How dare they!

If you want coffee, buy coffee. Stop buying an image.

If the taste is really the same, I don't see an issue with it. I mean, sure, it's sort of cheating the price but if the price wasn't so high (and we all know that the costs are very low, so i don't think they NEED to charge that much :), there wouldn't be a need to resort to creative ordering.
That said, a year ago my job transferred me to a different coutnry and the nearest startbucks is an hour away, and if I actually drive that hour, I think I would also just pay the real price, because HG's way of ordering could easily be replicated at home.

If a shop wants you to only order iteams off the menu, then don't have a coffee bar. Maybe shops the Netherlands and Germany give you a helping of milk and suger with your coffee, free of charge.

If a shop wants you to only order iteams off the menu, then don't have a coffee bar. Maybe shops the Netherlands and Germany give you a helping of milk and suger with your coffee, free of charge.

The milk is there for the express purpose of adding it to your coffee. I don't see how anyone could get their panties in a twist over someone adding milk to an iced dopio. I'm sure people have more important things to worry about, like correcting customers who come in and dare to order a mocha latte, when the drink is just called a mocha (said with a slight sneer).

Putting milk in your Iced Dopio at Starbucks is as immoral as downloading MP3s.

Okay, here in Ireland we have one Starbucks. It opened last week and I haven't been there yet!! But if by 'fixins' you mean free shit on the counter - hell yes, I'll use that and save myself 2 bucks!! First off, because I'm a poor, penniless student, secondly because Starbucks is an international franchise and can afford to be charitable to us poor students. But most importantly, because in Ireland they'll overprice. So you pay 2 bucks more. I'll probably pay 4. No exaggeration. To the shortcut takers, I say - Go! Go, you crazy kids and spread the joy for the poverty stricken everywhere!!!

As much as I like to find the hidden deal, I'd have to agree with Mom & Pop on this...the fixin's bar is just that.

If, however, some skunk drains the milk bar for their cheapo latte and there isn't a spot of it left for my tea...I'm going to be pissed.

Um $2 bucks? F'it, I don't care if it is mom and pop or Bill Gates. Money is money, and prices are prices. If you want product A, pay for product A.

If everyone is so poor, then maybe you should skip coffee? And if your not poor and just "thrifty" (a nice way of saying cheap) do you tip? Not that I think some one that pours coffee into a cup without putting milk and sugar in it deserves a tip.

But again $2 bucks will not change the world, nor will it put you in a bigger house, no matter how much coffee you drink.

Now if someone has a work around to turn a draft budweiser into a Sam Adams...you have my interest.

I don't see why adding milk to this is any different than adding milk to your coffee. All this shows us is that the Iced Latte is $2.00 overpriced. Ok, $1.50 if you factor in the steaming. I'll give them that 50 cents, because I'm generous.

In college did a similar thing. Ordered water, took it to the fixin's area and add a bunch of lemon juice packets and sugar. We called it po'man's lemonade.

I'm drinking a grande coffee frappuccino with whip cream right now, so...

If the Starbucks coffee manager is so upset about this, he needs to simply tell his employees not to allow people to order the Iced Dopio. Solves the problem.

I wouldn't feel bad at Starbucks or a mom and pop place doing the same thing. If they let me order it, the fixin's are free - there's no sign saying you can only use 1 oz. of milk, and two sugars.

Come on! It's just a few ounces of milk fer cryin' out loud! It's not like she's filling the entire cup with milk. I have worked in the service industry and the crime committed is the rate charged for the same drink minus the $.05 ( or less ) of milk they add.

I see by Roxaane's post that Starbucks has invaded the land of Guinness, which by the way it a much more enjoyable drink.
as far as ordering a "DOPIO"....
I can't ehlp but be reminded of Cornholio..and I don't want him anywhere near my food
if ya know what I mean

admittedly, i didn't read through all the comments, but i have to disagree with the woman who said it's "tacky". what a poor choice of word. tacky is wearing polka-dots with stripes, not saving $2 and making your own concoction yourself.

personally, i love that idea. i read Hungry Girl on a daily basis. i'm not one to buy from Starbucks, but i have many friends who do. and i'll be passing along this information to them in order for them to save some cash. i am a dunkin' donuts girl, where my medium (no snooty french names here!) french vanilla, cream, and equal costs me a mere $1.80 every day. i feel no sadness if starbucks loses $2 per coffee. they are making it up from the hard-core users that buy 3 or more coffee's a day.

Sounds like that manager is a tight ass.

You people need a real job.

I would do it anywhere that charges such ridiculous prices for their products. If they don't like it, change your pricing

I love my coffee. Hell, I even love Starbucks' coffee.

What I don't love is paying upwards of five dollars for a stinking large coffee.

Maybe if the prices were more reasonable, folks wouldn't have to resort to "tricks" to enjoy some Starbucks.

I posted a similar type of coffee tip on my blog last month. I call it the poor man's latte. I suggest getting a caramel americano and get them to leave room for milk.

Topping up an americano with milk or cream is one thing, but I think if you're pouring more than half a cup of milk into your glass, you're probably pushing it a little.

1. If you are getting coffee at Starbucks, then you probably aren't that concerned with saving money. My sister spends 3-5 bucks a day there, but won't buy a $1.00 coffee at the quickie mart. $5 a day = $1825 a year. That's not chump change.

2. In most retail food chains, the paper cup and lid usually cost the company more than the ingredients within.

3. I really doubt that this discovery is going to lead to a widespread use of the condiment bar in this way. Most people don't want to go to the trouble of mixing their own beverage, and a lot of people order fancy drinks that you couldn't mix up yourself (frappachinos).

4. I can't believe I'm taking the time to post about this.

You could say that Starbucks is gaining customers from the publicity. I say it will stay the same because I will continue not going to starbucks. This will peg starbucks down to only way more revenue than any one human can ever generate in their entire life of mining gold out of some jackass mountain somewhere.

Who cares? Really. Who gives a crap? This is a completely moronic thing to argue about and I can't believe that Hungry Girl, et al., cares about what some random coffee shop manager has to say about the way the customers pour their milk. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. The Subway bread cutting argument had more substance.

I managed a small, independently owned coffee shop for two years, and have skimmed these contents with significant interest. However, here's a few thoughts I'd like to add:

1. I am astonished by the number of comments from folks who seem to hate Starbucks, but spend their money there. To anyone who is so opposed to Starbucks that they think it's okay to "screw them over," STOP PATRONIZING THEM! Okay, so they have a drive-thru so you don't have to get out of your car. Walk a little! So they have a totally standardized product that is exactly the same all over the world. Try living a little bit! Go for something local! Accept variation as a good thing! Not spending any money at Starbucks will make a much louder statement than using extra milk at the condiment bar.

2. MILK IS THE SINGLE GREATEST EXPENSE IN A COFFEE SHOP. The prices are variable and consistently rising. Coffee beans, even free trade ones, are cheap by comparison. If you're ordering a 16 oz drink with two shots of espresso and one shot of syrup, you're probably getting a cup with about 5oz liquid, plus ice. Filling that 16oz cup with milk, to make the equivalent of an iced, flavored latte, will require about 8oz milk (after accounting for the space taken up by the ice). A gallon of milk generally costs nearly $4, or 50 cents per 8oz serving. Very different than the 6-12 cents of cost when someone adds 1-2 ounces of milk to a typical cup of coffee. A typical restaurant mark-up is supposed to be 150% of the food cost (to cover labor, rent, supplies, and utilities)... therefore $1.50. Another 50 cents is a big mark-up, but people, again, you are CHOOSING to go to a coffee shop.

Live ethically, folks. Pay for what you want. You're making a choice to patronize Starbucks, or any other coffee shop. Got a problem with their practices? Make your own coffee!

Anyone who gouges the customer with those horriffic prices for a cup of coffee deserves to have the chinks in their armor exposed.

I think it's fine to use the milk in this way. Businesses that go the extra mile to be accomodating usually end up with more business (and thus more money) in the long run.

In college, I used to go to 7/11 for nachos all the time. Instead of pumping the chili and cheese on our nachos, we used to fill the entire lid of the nacho tray with both. 7/11 never complained and we ended up buying nachos there several times a week.

ok, honestly I've never actually tasted coffee. I'm 45 years old and at this point I probably never will taste it. But I don't think the product is the point. If you don't want to pay the high prices, don't go to Starbucks. I don't think it's better to rip off a corporation vs a mom & pop. How do you think mom & pop shops become corporations? Anyway, the fixin bars are there for fixin, so have at it. I completely disagree with the people that use the fixins bar to make things at home. It's wrong. but if you are using the fixins bar for things you are consuming at that establishment, I say go for it, that's what they are there for.

As much distaste as I have for corporate franchises that bilk customers, I have a soft spot for private businesses. My grandparents ran a burger joint when I was a kid.

The fixins area is to complement your order, it's not a creation station. The bottom line for me is that it is an abuse of the intent of the area and ultimately it hurts other customers who
1: have to wait behind you while you concoct your beverage
2: get to the fixins area only to find its supplies have been used up
3: have to pay more for their drinks because there's been a sudden spike in costs for fixins.

This isn't a black or white issue but I tend to sympathize with the mom-and-pop stores who struggle to make a go against corporate franchises.

Just spend the 2$.

As for adding money to the tip jar (as ladylivewire suggests); that's a whole other issue. Take that jar off the counter, youre not serving like a waiter. Thats obnoxious. Should I tip a 7-11 cashier too?

So the logic of many above is:

IF THEY HAVE MORE THAN YOU IT IS OK TO STEAL FROM THEM.

Stay the hell away from me.

I think it's ridiculous that everyone keeps comparing this to taking a "whole stack of napkins home" or "17 jelly packs". No one's picking up a jug of milk to take home with them, they're just adding a little bit to a single drink.

If you have a fixin's bar, it's for all patrons to use regardless of what they bought. If Starbucks doesn't want this to happen then they need to ask patrons what add ins they want and mix it for them.

Which I think they should be doing anyway, if I'm paying $4 for a cup of coffee the least they could do is stir my sugar in it.

As far as putting the money saved in the tip jar, why is anyone tipping Starbucks employees anyway? Unless they come to my table, take my order, bring my coffee to me, and come by several times to make sure I'm doing okay & to offer me a re-fill, they don't deserve a tip.

The condiment bar is for me. I'm a paying customer, it is my world. If I want to load up my hot dog with a pound of relish, that's what I'm going to do. If my coffee requires seven Sugar In the Raws and they have six, I'm sending someone to the back for more. If it's on my side of the counter, I'm going to use it. I'm not advocating leaving a mess and licking all the spoons, but if they put it out there to be used during the course of a day, I'm going to make sure it gets used.

If I was owner of a shop and someone passed around this tip, I would have one of two options:
Make it a feature (Add your own stuff, save a buck!)
Charge more for the lower priced drink

Other than that, it seems a little petty to be up in arms over this (especially when it's not even your coffee shop). Who gets on Heloise's case when she posts a hint from some grandmother who talks about combining coupons to get cans of kidney beans for pennies? When my bike tire needs air, I may stop and fill it at a local bike shop that I did not purchase my bike from, does that matter?

Some places choose to provide goods and services for free. That is their choice, just as it is mine to remember this free service later on when I need to purchase something from them in the future. The two bucks she saves every time likely come back in the fact that she goes there twice as often.

Sounds like a story my dad told me about when he was a young man in the 40s. People would go to a diner and order a cup of hot water, then pour ketchup into it to make tomato soup. It got to the point that the manager stopped leaving the ketchup bottles on the counter.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with fixing up your way overpriced coffee with the milk from the bar. What if you'd never heard of the coffee with the milk already in it? Is Starbucks going to give you the stink eye because you haven't tried everything on the menu?

Marie,

It takes more than a "little bit" of milk to turn two shots of espresso into a latte.

and Toast,

A company has every right to "gouge" its customers that it wants to. Any company's goal is to make money. They can set their prices wherever they want. That's how it works. If you think it's too expensive, then don't give them your business.

I'd love to see any of you start a company and make sure everything is super cheap so people will just be happy.

Ameila (an owner) points out that milk is the single most expensive ingredient and regular markup to cover labour and expences brings the value to $1.50. My first point is that , sure It would be worth $1.50 if they put it in and mixed or frapped it or whatever - but they don't, it's just left on the table therfore it's not worth any more than the milk on my table at home. Another point is that an owner admits to the Starbucks markup being 50 cents higher than it should be!
Now for all you who say buy your coffee elsewhere - I do! I'm not knocking Starbucks- just a principal that is wrong. Theres nothing wrong with debating a practice that does not affect you directly.

If there were only a small difference in price, I would say that it's in bad taste to use the workaround and would feel that the store owner is shortchanged. But come on, 2 BUCKS, for MILK! I can buy an entire half gallon of milk for that much. Maybe this is should be a sign to Starbucks that their pricing is way out of whack.

Or you can look at it this way: when you pump your own gas, it's cheaper than if you go to full-serve. In my mind the $2 is cost for the priviledge of having a barrista add the milk!

To quote a bit of American cinema history...

"NO!! No wheezing the juice!!"

Store owners/managers will always come down on the side of the store. Customers will always come down on the side of the customer. To me "the point is moo." (Ahha! Television history too! I'm a wealth of culture, no?)

I understand the whole concept of making a profit and charging what you like. I think that Starbucks is overpriced, and as such I DON'T give them my business. And yes, $2 for milk is gouging your customers. If they don't want people "abusing" their milk, then don't leave it on the coffee bar.

I think it perfectly allright. If they put it out there, you should be able to with it what you want. They are charging a lot of money for "OK" coffee. And really, are a lot of people going to do this, probably not.

This is no more or less wrong than charing $2 for something that's made available for free.

Your friend should publicize this money grubbing coffee shop owner for who/what they are, and encourage her readers not to patronize his establishment.

A business is not guaranteed the opportunity to suck money from the consumer, only the opportunity to try.

As much as I appreciate Starbucks as an outstanding model of corporate responsibility, 3 or 4 bucks out of my pocket is not something I'm willing to do every day. If Lisa wants to pass around a tip she heard or discovered she has my support.
But here's something to consider. If you step into a Starbucks at 6 or 7 in the morning after and you're butt-tired, are you even going to have the will to make the drink yourself?
I'll leave that question to the philosophers.

We say "Stick it to the Man!"... :)

You know, baristas wouldn't complain if you tipped decently. Not the $.37 you get for your change, but maybe a buck. You'd drop that into a street musician's case or a bum's hat, but giving it to people that actually work? Fuck that.

And ripping off starbucks is okay, because their coffee really isn't that good.

I REFUSE to call them "baristas". That's just stupid.

The other day, I had a 16 year old girl at Starbucks thell me, "This is my 1st day as a barista!" I wanted to shove two biscotti up her nose.

By the way, that "workaround" is awesome, more power to you.

Down with the Baristas!

People who say it's wrong to do it at mom and pops, but okay to do it at Starbucks, are fooling themselves. If it is wrong to exploit the fixins bar at a mom and pop, it is equally wrong for the same reasons at a chain store. Personally, I think that if a coffee bar sets the fixins out, then I can pour myself a whole glass of milk from that bar if I want to. It is free, and I can use it anyway I like. HOWEVER, such exploitation will inevitably lead to removal of the fixins bar, or charges, etc. if you're lucky enough to not be thrown out of the coffee shop after you've drunk the milk.

Hot or iced, a latte's still a latte and therefore consistently priced. The fact you opt to not let the barista steam the milk for you is your choice, like opting not to eat the chocolate on your hotel room pillow.

The milk is provided on the condiment bar as a service to you, the customer. As the customer, you are entitled to using as much dairy and sugar as you need to suit your taste. That's why it's there. What's not okay, though, is that you purposely deceived the baristas in the effort to save money. You lied.

If you wanted the doppio, then order the doppio. Add as much condimenty goodness as you like to suit your tastes. That's fantastic - I'm glad my shop could provide for your beverage needs. When you start plotting these clever little menu loopholes though, that just leads to the Dark Side.

Because I'm a stickler for correctness, I'd like to point out a few flaws in Amelia's justification for charging so much to add milk to a drink.

A gallon has 128 oz., which is 16 8oz. servings, not 8, and therefore, even at $4 a gallon, the milk they're putting in your drink cost them $.25, not $.50. And I know that prices are different all over the country, but I live in a metropolitan area that is pretty average, and milk is just under $3 a gallon, which brings the cost of the 8oz. of milk Starbucks is putting into my coffee to $.19. Even at a standard 150% markup, they should not be charging much more than $.30 to make my drink milky. But I understand business, and I can see adding a dollar. Whatever. I don't care. I'm here to splurge on a drink I must really like, right?

But, if one is going to start getting all technical and start justifying the absurd prices, let's be realistic.

In short, business is business, and the milk they add might cost less than 20 cents, but they can charge whatever they please--because people are willing to pay it. But if someone else is smart enough to buy a less expensive drink and add milk, as if they had ordered a regular old cheap coffee, who cares?!!?!? That is NOT cheating Starbucks, and it is NOT stealing.

I cannot believe the socialist rhetoric that is taking over America. It sounds like the BS attitudes here in Canada that keep driving up our taxes so that the lazy can stay home and collect a cheque. Make your own damn coffee at home or play by the common rules of courtesy. I guess if they leave the furniture on the customer's side of the counter it is ok to take that too.

Ooops, crap. I'm a stickler, and I blew it. I meant at 150% markup, they should be charging $.60, not $30.

Steve, I usually like it when you open the ol' Comment Board, like with the Cattlepult Cowcatcher e.g.

This time, it's a snooze. "Boohoo, Starbucks charges so much", "Support mom-n-pop stores", "Abuse is petty", "I am entitled to do whatever I want". Now repeat these same 4 stinking points a hundred times.

Come-on people! If someone else said EXACTLY the same thing, why are you posting?

Otto

Honestly, I wouldn't like it if someone did it in front of me, so if it's there you might as well do it. Since I have little love for coporations I would favor this a little more. My own moral compass would not allow me to do it. Also, once in a while would be fine, though I wouldn't go in there every single day and do this ... they'd catch on.

Or just don't drink coffee, I don't.

Shit Nate!

That's is so brilliant! Wow! Thanks for adding your insights here with us.

Otto

Has it occurred to anyone that they're OVERCHARGING for the latte?

If they can sell an Americano for $2 less, even though the only difference is 15 cents worth of milk that someone pours into the cup, it's pretty clear they're gouging their customers in the first place.

1. "Is a paying customer completely justified in doing this or anything else they want at the fixin's bar? " Yes. It's there, it's 'free' (though you're actually paying for it when you buy your coffee). This is similar to taking extra ketchup packets from McDonalds for future use. However, if enough people start using this tip, and it begins to affect the coffee shop's costs/profits, you can count on higher prices for your Dopio/Latte, or there will be some sort of portion control at the fixin's bar.

2. "If not, at what point is going too far?" The point at which what you do results in a policy/price change by the store.

3. "Is this tip as equally justified at a local mom & pop coffee shop?" Of course.

4. "How would you feel about all of this if YOU were the owner of the coffee shop?" I'd feel pretty stupid for being exploited in this manner and not catching it sooner. I would then change the process (raise prices?) to prevent this from happening in the future.

5. "Is this tip appropriate to be passed along to thousands of people?" Hell yeah... with the understanding that it may cause a policy/price change by the store to prevent this from happening.

6. "Does that even matter?" Sure it does, because it affects YOUR pocket book/wallet.

Milk comes from a cow's teat.

i personally think the fixin's bar is free, so why not abuse it? i regularly make entire meals out of complimentary items, throwing crackers, pickles, condiments, lettuces, etc. together into an extra two items to go along with my cheapass purchased item. it's like an all-you-can-eat deal, if the owner has a problem with abuse of the extras, they should make it cost money. THATs capitalism in action

I get Lisa's daily email and I was happy to hear the tip! I don't think it is such a big deal. If Starbucks doesn't want people to abuse the milk then they shouldn't put so much of it out.

Remember when Wendy's had a salad bar? It's the same deal. Buy a plain potato for 99 cents and add your own broccoli and cheese. People have been doing this kind of stuff for years. Starbucks needs to relax.

I am personally of the opinion that loopholes such as this one are perfectly fine. It doesn't just apply to the food service industry. I know people who do this sort of thing with electronics and such... and if they can beat the system and technically legally get away with it then more power to them.

This reminds me of an incident in high school where I programmed my calculator to practically take my tests for me. Some students complained because I could finish the hour long tests in five minutes but the teacher said that if I was smart enough to figure it out then I should be entitled to use it.

Sorry for the tangent... but yeah, I think its brilliant.

I had a similar experience. I once went to the Chicken Ranch, an upscale whorehouse just oustide Las Vegas. When I got into the private room with my whore, Melanie, she informed me that a straight fuck would be $250. But if I wanted to go down on her (which I very much did), that would be an extra $50. I thought this was ridiculous. I felt that if I paid the money to fuck her, I should also be able to get my oral fix at no additional cost. I deemed the extra $50 a complete rip-off, so I told her "no thanks" on going down on her. So then, as we were fooling around (pre-sex), I would sort of guide her fingers inside herself, then guide her fingers into my mouth. This wasn't exactly as satisfying as going down on her, but I did get pretty much the same taste, smell, and subsequent joy. After a few moments of this, she caught on to my little trick and tried to make me pay the extra $50 for oral. We argued about this for almost an hour. Personally, I feel I was entitled to my trick...and I feel a Starbucks customer is entitled to the milk trick. So fuck Starbucks and fuck Melanie (which I did).

I think ultimately the customer has a RIGHT to being an educated consumer, and if putting the milk in at the bar versus having the barista put the milk in, thus saving $2, is such a "threat" to that coffee shop person who is against Hungry Girl's friendly suggestion, imagine, if you will, how much MORE of a threat it would be if customers just started saying "NO" to Starbucks all-together? It's nothing but nasty-ass, ultra-burnt coffee, which has no more caffeine than a comparably sized Dunkin Donuts coffee.

Rock on Zacker! Excellent point.

That reminds me of the time Melanie tried to charge me for giving her a shocker. We talked for an hour about if a thumb is a finger. Good times.

Otto

Enjoy your bourgesois luxury items produced by the sweat of thousands of slave-wage vassals in your third-world colonial empire, expolitative capitalist dogs!

Just kiddin', I love Starbucks.

Those of you who say this is wrong:

Say you went to a restaurant and plain toast was $.50 and buttered toast was $6.00. Now lets say there is butter on the table for free. Wouldn't you order the plain toast and butter it yourself? Its the same thing.

I think its wrong when you abuse the condiments, but when you use it for the item you bought and don't take extra with you it's not dishonest

I don't think it's particularly wrong, I just think it's tacky and cheap. I have a friend who would do something similar at lunch. He would order water and grab a huge napkinful of lemons. He'd then proceed to squeeze all the lemon wedges into the water, add some sugar, and make lemonade right at the table. It's not particularly wrong, but it's uncouth.

I don't have any problem with her posting it on her website. She has every right to spread tips about how to be cheap. Just like I don't have any problem with a coffee shop owner complaining that it's tacky.

Sure you get to save a few bucks but really you're just screwing the coffee shop. They pay for the milk for you to put in your coffee. If people start ripping off the gratius milk, then the gratius milk will end up behind the counter where you will have to ask for it, and then you won't get to fix your coffee excatly the way you like it. Worse yet the coffee place will just raise the price on all the coffee to pay for the milk. You might save some bucks at first but in the end you are screwing everybody. Especially the Mom & Pop shops who cannot afford to absorb that cost. Really folks if you don't want to pay whats on the menu then do shop at the store.

There are a number of things I'd love to say on this subject, but don't have the time or energy, and it would end with me just bashing on Startbucks, so I'll hold off on those. I will however mention that if they provide the milk for you for free, then when you pay money to have it put in your drink what are you paying for? You must be paying for the service of them adding the milk. If you add it yourself, why should you be obligated to pay for that service??

I would not at a Mom and Pop sort of coffee place, but at a Starbucks I would take as much as possible. I'm sure that by not buying a latte that I am severly hurting the corporation. There really is no use crying over spilled (or in the this case "borrowed") milk.